|
Post by wcuracer on Feb 25, 2009 1:08:17 GMT -5
So I have officially tried SRAM Shifters. I have the new SRAM Rival 09' Carbon Shifters. To my knowledge they have the same shifting mechanism as the SRAM Red & Force.
I have been using the Dura-Ace 7801 Shifters for quite sometime and I will say it is quite different.
Here are my pro's and cons of both products.
Dura-Ace 7801 Pro's
Light Looks great on your bike Quick Shifting The best rear upshift for climbing Can really feel when your out of gears without having to shift
Cons
Can't move the inside lever More odds of yanking out the levers in a wreck because one of the shifters is on the outside Not as fast of a downshift for sprinting
SRAM Pro's
Fast Downshift Nice Sweep on the levers so you can stay in position better while downshifting Front Shifter is really quick to respond Cheap - Carbon Shifters for $190??? That's what I purchased them at
Cons
Not a great climbing shifter IMO because the upshift isn't as quick as dura-ace because you have to bypass the downshift mechanism in the single lever. Sometimes you may get a mis-shift. Maybe I will improve this over time.
Wears my hand out when trying to tune them
The carbon lever on the outside does not match the black lever on the inside on my SRAM Rival...They could have put some cheap carbon wrap on the inside lever just to match it or left them both at a raw finish...Force looks a little better but cost a lot more money for like 20 Grams which IMO = Waste of Money
So the conclusion of all this basically states, "if your a sprinter or flat lander get the SRAM if your a climber stick with the dura-ace." This is my opinion of it all.
Oh and for you weight weenies / grabbing whats hot the new 7900 PR Said this
"“If you were to look at the last generation of SRAM product and then look at ours you could absolutely walk away with that impression,” said Devin Walton, Shimano’s PR manager. “The reality is that a lot of the things you see integrated at this level are things that have already been done at more affordable levels of our product. But also this is a normal evolution of product. We are absolutely going to respond to what the market wants. If somebody makes something with a favorable feature and we’re making a new product, we wouldn’t turn away from that just due to pride.”
So basically they wanted to copy SRAM.
|
|
|
Post by cujo on Feb 25, 2009 11:09:26 GMT -5
You will find that the sram works alot better than shimano or campy. Your hands just have to learn the system the same. the throw for sram up shift is actually the same distance as shimano. The sram durability is greater as well. And whyn up can pull the shifter to the bar and still shift that is a neat feature.
I had issues with missed shifts for about 3 months. But that went away after my hand "learned the feel" better.
I like the color material contrast.
|
|
|
Post by mvi on Feb 27, 2009 18:58:30 GMT -5
Quote "You will find that the sram works alot better than shimano or campy." Maybe you should add "I'm sponsored by SRAM " under your mail to keep things objective. If SRAM worked "a lot" better , there would be concensus on the web about this. This is not the case. Campa levers are the only ones that are relatively easy to rebuild, and for which parts are available. 11 speed to top it off. The only group ahaed of the pack is probably dura ace electronic, if you can afford 5K for it. Big races will be won on any of the above this year...
|
|
|
Post by TC on Feb 27, 2009 22:01:58 GMT -5
I got an email from Ben Coffee the other day, he rode the new D-A electric. He said it was the fastest, best shifting in either direction he has ever done. Best of all, going into the 11 cog on the back was flawless, because it overcompensates then corrects itself in a millisecond to make the perfect shift. Same with the front going to the big ring, even under load. Cool. Way to much money for now though, like $15,000 plasma TVs 10 years ago.
|
|
|
Post by YellowLemondTed on Feb 28, 2009 12:22:44 GMT -5
I think the next advancement in componentry will be Shimano DA-E with built in plasma screens that can be folded into the shifters when it's sprint time.
I ride Sram on my new steed and have enjoyed it. I rode shimano 105/ultegra mix group before my accident. I never had any issues with it during my time riding, but now that I'm on Sram it does feel a bit more crisp.
As far as the shift levers, I like the single lever shifting, though I find myself reaching to tap the break lever for an upshift from time to time.
|
|
|
Post by cujo on Mar 2, 2009 13:33:05 GMT -5
Quote "You will find that the sram works alot better than shimano or campy." Maybe you should add "I'm sponsored by SRAM " under your mail to keep things objective. If SRAM worked "a lot" better , there would be concensus on the web about this. This is not the case. Campa levers are the only ones that are relatively easy to rebuild, and for which parts are available. 11 speed to top it off. The only group ahaed of the pack is probably dura ace electronic, if you can afford 5K for it. Big races will be won on any of the above this year... First I am not sponsored by anybody anymore. So before you start implying that I would lie to promote a product, know what you are talking about. You obviously do not know me If you think I am the type that promotes something I do not believe in. You do not see me running around talking up Challange tubulars do you? For the record I have been sponsored BY ALL THREE. As well as SUNTOUR and MODOLO. Clearly you are a Campy buff. YOU will more than likely always believe that CAMPY is better. If you are going to spend nearly 4G on record what is 5G for DAE. Ride it. Sram works better over the long all. Have you ever rebuilt a shifter? Sram is very easy to rebuild as well. It is a very simple mech. Dura Ace 9 is a pain in the butt. 10 is a little easier. Campy is harder than Sram but no were near Dura ace to rebuild. Have you ever tried to get small parts from Campy? And many of the reviews do say that Sram seems better then the other two. The "WEB” is not the do all and be all of the world. As far as electric goes it has been done before and not well mind you. And not just by Mavic. Campy tried electric as well. IN the past weight and battery life were the problems. The trick now is the UCI MINIMUM WEIGHT rule. The bikes are so light they can add the weight with better battery packs. I still think that it has a long way to go before the mainstream. And 11 speed. Do you know why Campy is doing 11 speed? It is because they did not do 10 speed right. There is extra space in the dish of their wheels. It only makes since that they go 11 speed to fix this error. I do not think many will gain anything from 11 speed. Except maybe in TT situations an 11 21 straight block would be nice.
|
|
|
Post by mvi on Mar 2, 2009 19:04:24 GMT -5
Campy did not do 10 speed right? Campy was the only 10 speed group 2 years before Shimano. Campy spacing has always been more than Shimano, thats why you can perfectly shift a shimano 9 cassette with a Campy 10 shifter with only a different cable hook up. 11 speed is not necessary anywhere , but the same can be said for 10 speed. All top groups work pretty perfect IMO. In cyclocross the SRAM guys were running Shimano chains and not SRAM by the way. In cross ,where shifting is stressed to the max, 90% of the Euro pro's run Simano 7800 despite the extending vulnerable shift cables, that tells you something. I never had to rebuild any of my Campa levers but have friends who got the parts easy and did so. If a Shimano lever craps out, it is done, no rebuilding that I have ever heard off (and no parts available). Really no discussion necessary: do you think that Lance would not have won 7 TdF if he would have had Ultegra levers? It's the moto... Disclaimer: I'm not sponsored and have Campy' 10, Dura ace 9 (that refuses to fail) and SRAM on the MTB.
|
|
|
Post by cujo on Mar 3, 2009 9:32:34 GMT -5
Campy did not do 10 speed right? Campy was the only 10 speed group 2 years before Shimano. Campy spacing has always been more than Shimano, thats why you can perfectly shift a shimano 9 cassette with a Campy 10 shifter with only a different cable hook up. 11 speed is not necessary anywhere , but the same can be said for 10 speed. All top groups work pretty perfect IMO. In cyclocross the SRAM guys were running Shimano chains and not SRAM by the way. In cross ,where shifting is stressed to the max, 90% of the Euro pro's run Simano 7800 despite the extending vulnerable shift cables, that tells you something. I never had to rebuild any of my Campa levers but have friends who got the parts easy and did so. If a Shimano lever craps out, it is done, no rebuilding that I have ever heard off (and no parts available). Really no discussion necessary: do you think that Lance would not have won 7 TdF if he would have had Ultegra levers? It's the moto... Disclaimer: I'm not sponsored and have Campy' 10, Dura ace 9 (that refuses to fail) and SRAM on the MTB. Just because they did it first does not mean they did it right. They did a great job of adding a click to the nine speed shifter and changing the hub and fitting 10 speeds where 11 could fit. Hell Shimano started the entire indexing of shifting. They were the first to bring shifting to the break leaver. They were not the first to locate a shifter at the brake lever though. Something else I bet you do not know and the companies won’t admit. You can run Shimano cassettes with Campy shifters. I am not sure vice versa. I know everywhere you look it says you cannot. Manulife did it all year. Campy chain and shifter and Shimano cassette. You can rebuild a Shimano shifter. It is a pain in the ass and takes days mainly due to frustration breaks. And if your friend got the Campy parts easily, was it quick as well, they must have really improved customer service. The last time I tried to get small parts from Campy it took 10 weeks. Shimano small pats are available at almost any bike shop; just ask if they have trashed levers lying around. I have actually gotten some small parts by calling Shimano direct as well. Are you saying that just because they chose to run a Shimano chain instead of SRAM that makes Sram less? Who are these guys? Do they have boxes of Sram chains they got for free and are buying Shimano out of pocket? How does a "better" chain mean anything? When Sram first started making Chains they were the only chain that most people, USA cat 12s, ran. Shimano 10 speed chains used to snap like twigs when they first came out. I remember the old 5 speed stuff you would run the same chain and freewheel for years. And if you think Euro Pros are running anything that they are not paid to run you are crazy. You imply that because I was sponsor my opinion is jaded. Yet I have never received a dime from any group manufacturer. Riders that get CASH MONEY to run components however speak volumes to the reliability and quality of the product? I could design the worst group ever and given enough money I could have the whole peloton on it. Pros ride what they are given or are paid to ride end of story. Lance would not have won 7 tours without Johan. Give Johan a rider that can win and he will always win. Lance might have done the pedaling for 7 but Johan has won 8 tours, now. And He will win it again this year. The only year he lost in the last 9 years he had no rider that could win.
|
|
|
Post by cujo on Mar 3, 2009 9:52:33 GMT -5
One other question. Have you ridden Sram for any length of time, 6months? Dura Ace 10?
If the answer is no, you disclaimer should read. Although I not sponsored by anyone I have only really ridden Campy. I am a die hard Campy fan.
|
|
|
Post by TC on Mar 3, 2009 10:21:08 GMT -5
I just like the way Dura-Ace sounds.
I can't even pronounce Campagnolo.
|
|
|
Post by mvi on Mar 3, 2009 16:41:41 GMT -5
He' Cujo, Nothing personal man! I assumed you were sponsored for your bike stuff ,since you posted last year you were on a pro- team. My bad. I do think the 3 groups are pretty equal in their (top) quality. BTW Kathy Compton bought Dura Ace out off her pocket this year and stickered them off. Shimano didn't want to give her the stuff, and she didn't want them to have the exposure. Where I feel that an advantage can be had is in extremely reliable front derrailleur shifting without any fear of chain drop, and under power. If E dura ace does that it will be a great advantage for racers in the gutter-up the cobbles - climbs. Also a system that will correct automatically for any wheel of the wheel truck(bike), can be a race winner in a race as Roubaix or Flanders. For us mortals, I could be happy with down tube shifters. Although a flat 12-27 11 speed would be nice in the mountains here.
|
|
|
Post by YellowLemondTed on Mar 4, 2009 7:37:47 GMT -5
Wouldn't it be a flat 12-22? I thought flat gearing is every gear being consecutive from small to big ie. 12-22 or 11-21.
|
|
|
Post by cujo on Mar 4, 2009 9:09:05 GMT -5
I dont take it personal that you like Campy. It did bother me that you thought even if I am sponsored I would talk up a product I did not think worked.
Ted, I am not sure what he means by flat. But you are correct it would be a 12-22 or 11-21 straight block. This would be nice with a compact 34-51. Campy wont make the 22 cog though because of an old euro climbing in even gears superstition.
|
|
|
Post by mvi on Mar 4, 2009 20:34:23 GMT -5
There is a whole segment of marketing on the web where people get stuff for free to "talk it up" Ipods and Iphones come to mind. Bicycle stuff is included here as well. Companies give components to active bloggers or posters. So if I see someone post "SRAM is a lot better" "and more durable as well" bells start ringing. The stuff has been out a few years only and been changed every year. How can you say it's more durable? Much better, but it takes 3 months to learn to shift? I'm not a:"Clearly you are a Campy buff. YOU will more than likely always believe that CAMPY is better" but when I bought my Record shifters 5 years ago I paid $249 for the shifters and haven't touched them maintenance wise. On many boards they demand that people will reveal: _If they work in the bicycle industry, and if so as what. -If they are sponsored by a product, under their messages. I think it is fair for Clint to know these things before he comes up with the big $ on your advise. If I were him I would ride the levers he is selling as we speak. In a crit you use 5 gears only anyway, and you will crash sooner or later and damage your stuff. A racing bike is a tool after all.
PS, If SRAM gives me a big rebate on RED, I WILL talk it up for them. And ride the crap out of it. So much for being a Campy buff..
|
|
|
Post by cujo on Mar 5, 2009 9:45:55 GMT -5
Every component company makes changes every year. What changes has Sram made?
No it does not take three moths to shift. However you underestimated the automation of the brain. If you have ridden one group for say 10 years and switch to sram you will find yourself not clicking correctly. It is similar to the complaints of the reverse spring in some mountian bike ders. It did not take three months for me it was about a week. Which was less time then it took for me to learn the fine points of campy shifting.
Durability has a lot of factors crashing being the main one. I have seen sram take a beating and keep working. And once set up it works like a champ and requires little to no readjustment as with Shimano.
The question still reamains, have you ridden Sram for any length of time?
You said you do not even own dura ace 10.
You clearly have a strong opinion and that is fine. I am just wondering what you are basing it on. I have ridden and raced all three at least 2 years each. I can say that Sram is my group of choice. It just works better. I would ride any one of them tomorrow. I can say that the Campy two lever system cost me me at least two race wins because of the whole drop the cluster and not one gear at a time.
And in the original compare and contrast it is rival vs dura ace. That is like 105 vs record. It is not really a fair comparison. But the fact that rival holds its own should say a lot.
|
|