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Post by Vespa on Jan 31, 2007 16:15:31 GMT -5
Oh -- I didn't read the original, source post. I would be 100% surprised if the Irishman purchased anything less than the best.
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Post by TC on Jan 31, 2007 19:32:39 GMT -5
Where is the wrenchmeister? My advice: any DUAL PIVOT brake is great, buy high end brake pads, and keep well oiled fresh cables on the bike. Save your money and buy that sweet set of 404's or Aros to roll on. To digress, last time we rode together neither of us even had brakes on our bikes!! When do we fire it up at the Mellodrome again? I can't wait!! TC
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Post by Clint on Jan 31, 2007 20:55:54 GMT -5
TC stated, "any DUAL PIVOT brake is great." That is probably one of the best ways to go about finding whether that brake is for you or not!
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Post by irish on Feb 1, 2007 10:28:20 GMT -5
Vespa is correct - I'm an equipment junkie. The best/worst thing about this is the fact that I absolutley appreciate the nexus of design and function: where the realm of art intersects the province of function. Always have, on both bicycles and motorcycles. With bicycles, the result borders on becoming a weight weenie, which is of course absurd given the fact that I'm a lard ass.
I must admit that TC has touched on something a rather important point: It is perhaps shameful that a track rider even consider wasting a dime on such trivial matters as brakes ;-)
Regarding the track, weather permitting, I'm planning to start training in earnest every week until racing seaon, beginning this weekend. I believe the Mellowdrome Saturday training sessions start at 10AM this time of year. Vespa can probably confirm this.
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Post by Jackson Amburn on Feb 1, 2007 20:11:35 GMT -5
A lard donkey. Yeah, that's you Dulaney.
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Post by irish on Feb 6, 2007 15:55:08 GMT -5
The truth can hurt, Jackson. Better to be honest with oneself that to delude oneself ;-)
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Post by mvi on Feb 26, 2007 21:22:13 GMT -5
Andy Hampsten rode his bike with a set of Shimano brakes, lower than Ultegra quality (forgot the name, there was no 105 in those days). I think they were some of the first dual pivots. Brakes are so good these days. Top of the line can have less performance, just to safe weight. Likewise Durace and Record cranks are likely not the stiffest (nor the lightest). Lance would not have lost a single TdF if he had to use Ultegra instead of Durace IMO.
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Post by Vespa on Feb 27, 2007 9:11:01 GMT -5
Amen. Or if he had used 105. Just like Gibbs and Chris used to fly up climbs on nice but heavy steel frames. Equipment matters, but (with the exception of aerodynamicly important items) only to a fraction of the amount people think. Lance would not have lost a single TdF if he had to use Ultegra instead of Durace IMO.
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Post by 1yellowtire on Feb 27, 2007 9:32:16 GMT -5
This is a variation of a conversation we've had on this board a number of times. In the end, it comes down to your definition of "substantial time reduction" The stuff I've read says that on a 7%, 5K climb (sounds about like Tilley Creek to me), a 160 lb rider picks up about 6 seconds per pound they shed. Of course there's the old rolling weight vs. non-rotating weight controversy, but I think this will give a general guide.
When Warren was riding his Bianchi, it was about 5lbs heavier than my bike. Assuming we weigh the same, I was getting a 30 second advantage up Tilley Creek. I would argue that the weight of his bike v. my bike made a "substantial" difference. And yes--before someone says it--it's much cheaper to lose body weight and there are obviously a host of other factors, but weight is one (small, but not inconsequential) one.
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Post by Vespa on Feb 27, 2007 9:51:47 GMT -5
How many more pounds/seconds faster up Tilley Creek are Dura-Ace calipers than, say, ultegra?
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Post by 1yellowtire on Feb 27, 2007 10:00:49 GMT -5
Three brief comments relating to Mike's last post: 1.) You had stopped talking about brakes. Your comment was about the importance of equipment (of lack thereof). I just wanted to get past important/not important. 2.) This is the last time I let you suck me in to a pointless debate. 3.) I figured it out and the answer to your question is 1.2 seconds.
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Post by irish on Feb 27, 2007 10:30:19 GMT -5
Vespa - Climbing time isn't something I'll ever worry about - for obvious reasons - and weight savings isn't a concern for the upgrade. My concern centers on which brakes will provide the most control (i.e. modulation) and stopping power on descents. I've experienced significant brake fade with Ultegra brakes, even using Dura Ace pads.
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Post by Vespa on Feb 27, 2007 10:36:20 GMT -5
Hmmm. Another major factor in performance, not discussed so often, would be pyschological determination or mental strength. The 1.2 second advantage assumes an absolutely constant wattage, applied over the same precise distance, on two bicycles, one of which sports the marginally less heavy D/A calipers. Since we both have DuraAce calipers, this will require some creativity. Next time we climb Tilley Creek together, I will squirt out the 1 or 2 ounces of water required to make up this difference. Then, I'll only be 9m:58.2 seconds down at the top, instead of 10 minutes. Hah! Except for in a very closely contested TT, competetition erases such infinitessimally small advantages. Three brief comments relating to Mike's last post: 1.) You had stopped talking about brakes. Your comment was about the importance of equipment (of lack thereof). I just wanted to get past important/not important. 2.) This is the last time I let you suck me in to a pointless debate. 3.) I figured it out and the answer to your question is 1.2 seconds.
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Post by Vespa on Feb 27, 2007 11:26:50 GMT -5
Well, if I was a push-the-envelope, downhill machine like the Irishman, I'd go for the best braking action, too (although my experience with both brakes suggests the differences may be chalked up to the power of suggestion). Why don't you try disks? Vespa - Climbing time isn't something I'll ever worry about - for obvious reasons - and weight savings isn't a concern for the upgrade. My concern centers on which brakes will provide the most control (i.e. modulation) and stopping power on descents. I've experienced significant brake fade with Ultegra brakes, even using Dura Ace pads.
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Post by mvi on Feb 27, 2007 19:07:07 GMT -5
Since Ulegra brakes are heavier , and of same construction as DA, they will be stiffer since modulus of elasticity of all Aluminum qualities is the same. My friend broke his old (pre dual pivot) ultegra front brake in two pieces coming down from Col du Souleur in the Pyrenees. With 30 lbs of camping gear on the back it took about 1/2 mile to come to a standstill. It took him a year to get the thing replaced by Shimano Europe. And now a quote from Mr Colnago himself:" Everyone wants to climb on a 14 lbs bike, Nobody wants to descent on a 14 lbs bike". So true.
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