Road Bike Brake Upgrades

[irish]

Just a quick note to ask if anyone out there has experience with the 2007 versions of 1) SRAM Force and/or 2) Campy Record brakes? I'm upgrading the Ultegra brakes on one of the road bikes and have noticed anecdotally that a lot of eBay people are selling new take-off Dura Ace brakes or are selling their "barely used" Dura Ace in order to "upgrade" to SRAM. I'm familiar with Dura Ace, which seems very hard to beat, but am also open to trying something new/different.

[Clint]

Yeah I almost went with SRAM I actually had a chance to buy a bike with it...but I have learned from past experiences go with whats proven...so I went with Shimana Dura-Ace because it has proven itself time and time again....SRAM is new I would say give it a few more years then check the replies on it....

Adding one more thing to this Michael Evans put some Zero Gravity brakes on his bike this was a year or so ago. They were extremely light but tuning them wasn't fun from what he told me. So different brakes sometimes require a different touch also...which may require more dollars to your mechanic...if your like me BROKE...then you can go from there!

[1yellowtire]

I've got Dura Ace and I've been very happy with them so I can see Clint's point of view. On the other hand, Sram's been around a while--it's just that only now are they trying to challenge Shimano with a full road gruppo. I've heard nothing but good stuff about Sram thus far--and they look cool to boot.

Go with the Sram, Will! Be different!

[irish]

Thanks for the input you two. I'm definitely considering the SRAM, but do heed Clint's advice that a little aging w/respect to R&D is never a bad thing. That said, have you seen the '07 Campy Record gruppo? In my opinion, bicycle component design has never been so sexy. But some may argue that Italian components deserve to ride on Italian bikes... and I may listen...

[Clint]

Campy...their was a time when I wish I had it...because their is a BIG ADVANTAGE to having it (yes that '07 groupo is VERY SEXY). I had a shifter that wasn't working correctly once (Shimano Ultegra) and sadly their was nothing to do for it since you can't take the shifters apart. The good news about campy is that if something goes wrong inside the shifter you can take them apart and just order the part inside of them that is messed up which will save you alot of money. I don't know that option is available on SRAM you should talk to Andrew he may know.

[YellowLemondTed]

Campy is a very pretty set of components. The thing with them though is price. They have been around since the beginning, just like Shimano, but their prices for each level of components are higher than that of shimano. Much like YellowTire, I've heard nothing but great reviews and I say why not give it a whirl. If anything the resale value is still high because of the newness of them, so if its so terrible you can always go back to your Dura-Ace.

[Scott Baker]

My personal thought is that you go with the Dura Ace. The braking quality of the latest Dura Ace iteration is superior. This holds especially true for bigger riders (not that there is anything wrong with that) . As a 195+ lb rider myself, the braking of the DA is superb. I have never used the Campy or SRAM components, and possibly shame on me for not having Campy on my Italian bike, but the Shimano DA hardware is pretty darn good. You are welcome to try out my DA braking as compared to Ultegra (which is pretty good in its own right) if you like. I would consider the SRAM after a year or two of non-pro testing before getting it for my own bike.

-Scott

[Josh Whitmore]

I have a couple comments:

1. If you are going by looks alone, the '07 campy record skeleton brakes are the most appealing brakes I have ever seen. You'll pay for them though, and then there is the issue of having a mix of campy and shimano on your bike. The purists would shudder.




2. More importantly, when spending money on a road bike, I would rarely pay much attention upgrading the brakes. Ultegra brakes work very well, I don't think you will be able to tell a difference in performance between ultegra and Dura Ace. The D/A version is lighter, but I don't think they work any better. When upgrading, I think the money is better spent on (1)wheels, (2)shifters, (3)pedals/shoes, (4)cranks

3. I have a set of tektro carbon brakes. They are about the same weight as Dura Ace, and are much cheaper (Dura Ace retails for about $240 per set, These retail for about $150). They are carbon! I think they look cool and they also work as well as the shimano ones

[Vespa]

Couple of things:
1. I've got Dura-Ace now, because my new bike just came that way.
2. My old bike had some different stuff on it, mostly Dura-Ace. It had old Ultegra 600 calipers though, by choice. They we almost as light as the DA, and a lot cheaper. Certainly, they worked just as well.

Once you're in a decent weight range, it doesn't matter a hill of beans what brakes you use on your road bike. As long as they are maintained with good pads and are compatible with your levers, it really absolutely does not matter and will not effect your riding performance or safety in any way, shape or form.

So, I'd say buy what you want and/or can afford. If you think a higher end model is sexy or cool, go for it. If 105 suits your budget, you'll descend just as well.

Generally, I agree with Josh. Except I'd prioritize: (1) Wheels, (2) pedals and shoes, (3) frame, (4) shifters.

Personally, I don't think nice cranks offer much advantage over cheap ones, except for the weight thing.

[1yellowtire]

As always, I agree with the thrust of what Vespa said, but I think he overstated it a bit. Vespa said, "Once you're in a decent weight range, it doesn't matter a hill of beans what brakes you use on your road bike. As long as they are maintained with good pads and are compatible with your levers, it really absolutely does not matter and will not effect your riding performance or safety in any way, shape or form."

I think this is generally correct--as long as they brake, brakes are doing their job. When I shifted from Ultegra to Dura Ace, however, I felt a BIG difference when braking--the Dura Ace felt much more reliable--particularly in the rain. I got a lot more stopping power with less effort. So I do think it makes some safety difference at the margins.

Is that difference worth the $$ you'll have to pay? Probably not.

[Scott Baker]

I can also tell a difference between DA and Ultegra brakes. I'll agree with the well-maintained brakes comments, but Newton was not crazy when he came up with inertia with regard to the laws of motion did he? I will argue that Vespa's saying:

"Once you're in a decent weight range, it doesn't matter a hill of beans what brakes you use on your road bike. As long as they are maintained with good pads and are compatible with your levers, it really absolutely does not matter and will not effect your riding performance or safety in any way, shape or form."

is a bit too extreme. I have used cheap brakes and quality brakes, and I can guarantee you that it does affect your riding performance and safety. Poor quality brakes hamper your braking ability, thus resulting in a higher chance of having an incident. I wonder why they put heavier-duty brakes on larger and heavier vehicles? Must be for fun. Hmmmm. ;D The odds of not having a rebuttal to this are 0.0000001%

[Vespa]

;D

Rebuttal:

Basically, regardless of the Dura Ace magic one might "feel," lower-end but decent road bike brakes are really, really nice these days. Sure, my hyperbole would be a bit much if I were comparing D/A with the brakes on an old Huffy. But, 105, for example, offers a great product for a much lower price. I would argue that Scott using 105 would clock the same time on a descent without compromising safety. With Ultegra, the bike wouldn't be significantly heavier than with D/A.

I think the D/A levers are quite a bit nicer and more impactful on things like weight and longevity. There may be a problem with the new D/A being compatible with some other calipers -- that would be a reason to spend more; however, if on a budget and building a bike without a complete gruppo, I think brake calipers are probably the very first place I'd look to save $.

All that being said, I like nice stuff, too. Lots of people read this board, and I was weighing in strongly because those on a budget really don't need to blow it on brakes.

Now, let's discuss the over-emphasis people place on gears!

[Scott Baker]

Nicely put Vespa. I'll agree with you. Heck, on the Parkway, who uses brakes anyway?

Don't even get me started on gearing!

[Vespa]

Thanks. And, I'll admit, racing downhill in some crazy way like they did in that canyon out west last year, I'd want the best. Uh, I'd want disk brakes, even...

admin said:

Nicely put Vespa. I'll agree with you. Heck, on the Parkway, who uses brakes anyway?

Don't even get me started on gearing!

[irish]

Great stuff from everyone.

Josh, I agree with your prioritizing of equipment - it's just that I'm actually at the point where everything else for the bike is what I want (including the S-Works carbon soled shoes - I don't have words for how fantastic they are). The bike came with Dura Ace everything save for the Ultegra brakes. When I point the bike downhill, the 237lbs I call a body tend to want to show off Uncle Newton's laws in a big way. For my size and the speeds at which I like to try and achieve, I'm thinking high-end brakes are worth the cost for the additional margin of safety. I've felt significant fade when braking hard on the Ultegras. Folks less than 200lbs might not be able to perceive any appreciable difference, but we Clydesdales can

Scott - I have in fact often wondered about the Shimano equipment on that Italian beauty...